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Ladder: Creating Fixtures

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Ladder: Creating Fixtures

Post Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 11:00 pm

Hi Mark,

I wanted to add a ladder competition on my site.

However, I do not see the option for admin any more to create fixtures in a ladder.

Many of my users prefer to play ladder matches spontaneously instead of going through the challenging process. Would be very helpful if admins/moderators could create the fixtures and enter the results directly. Would it be possible to (re-) add such an option?

Cheers in advance either way Smile

Golem
Contributor
Contributor
 

Ladder: Creating Fixtures

Post Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 11:07 pm

I took the option out because I wanted to re-code the match creation / editing / results entry process and having a separate "enter result" for knockout / league and "confirm result" for ladder program dramatically simplified and improved the integrity of the coding. mComp v3 had a single monolithic "fixture" program which did everything, some of it badly.

It would be hard now to re-add the facility for admins to maintain ladder fixtures, and IMO it doesn't fit with the concept of a ladder anyway (ladders being user maintained competitions generally).

As you know I'm not doing anything major at the moment on anything, so I can't see this happening for a while.

mark
Site Admin
Site Admin
 

Re: Ladder: Creating Fixtures

Post Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 11:21 pm

That's sad to hear Mark Sad

- mark
and IMO it doesn't fit with the concept of a ladder anyway (ladders being user maintained competitions generally).


I agree with this in general. From my very own experience with MComp ladders, this is just an ideal and often only theoretical situation though (Can't speak about other admins of course).

I therefore hope you would reconsider this for the following reasons:
Many people meet online and play matches spontaneously. I have had many comments in previous ladders that people do not use it since they find it too complicated to go through the whole challenge process prior to playing their games. Most of the matches happen when players meet and cannot be planned in advance rather often.

Meanwhile others just sign up and spam-challenge out of curiosity and block/harm other competitors by their behaviour.

Not to mention that a good bunch of users simply do not get how the challenging part works and simply give up.

Previous ladders often dried up with dozens of unaccepted/un-declined matches by inactive players. Having the option to only use matches that actually have been played could improve this situation a lot. The overall maintainace effort might increase a lot if you have to clean up all the "unsuccessful" attempts of users to create fixtures and by having to explain the process to everyone in detail where you could simply add the fixture yourself instead to speed things up.

MComp3, with all its weaknesses, still gave you the freedom to let players who where familiar with MComp to arrange their matches on their own, while you where still able to help out the ones that where having difficulties with the challenge system and asked you to help them create their fixtures and enter their results.

An additional problem with challenges occurs if you make use of custom fields for other events like leagues in which only admins can enter the results. I use them in some events to give additional info about the played matches. Since MComp does not support different custom fields for different events (yet?), people would have to also fill out all those custom fields when challenging other players... Custom fields that might not even fit the ladder as such or which should be filled out by admin only.

I know that this is a rather specific and seldom problem. Still this might give you an idea about some of the problems with strict challenge-only ladders. Yu have to plan the usage of custom fields properly and make sure that you use only those kind of fields that can be used for any game and event the same way in order to not harm any of them.

I wonder what the experiences of other MComp users are?

Golem
Contributor
Contributor
 

Re: Ladder: Creating Fixtures

Post Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 6:11 pm

I have been playing a bit with the ladder system and have encountered a few more problems:

1. The conflict system doesn't seem to work anymore in v4. The last score entered counts.

2. E-Mail notification does not work 100%. At least during my tests the challenged player does not get a notification. The challenger does get a notification when the challenge is accepted/declined.

Golem
Contributor
Contributor
 

Re: Ladder: Creating Fixtures

Post Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 10:55 am

Thanks Golem, I'll look into those, er, sometime Embarassed

mark
Site Admin
Site Admin
 

Re: Ladder: Creating Fixtures

Post Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:36 pm

- Golem
1. The conflict system doesn't seem to work anymore in v4. The last score entered counts.


If you're logged in as Admin when testing this it will. The program checks your Admin status before checking whether you're a trustee / leader of the team entering the result (or player if it's single-player). If you have Admin permission for that Game / Event it assumes you're entering the result as Admin and therefore assumes the result is confirmed.

The check should probably be the other way round, but that would mean an Admin could not carry out the functions of an Admin if they play for the team who's fixture they're trying to Admin.

Open to suggestions as to which is the most appropriate way of doing things, but at the moment if you're an Admin you're not a team member / player and the rules for members / players don't apply.

- Golem
2. E-Mail notification does not work 100%. At least during my tests the challenged player does not get a notification. The challenger does get a notification when the challenge is accepted/declined.


Is this for a single player, 1-v-1 type competition, or team? Because I think there's a bug whereby it's checking a field called "Include in Mailings" which looks like it's disabled for players.

mark
Site Admin
Site Admin
 

Re: Ladder: Creating Fixtures

Post Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 1:50 pm

- mark

- Golem
2. E-Mail notification does not work 100%. At least during my tests the challenged player does not get a notification. The challenger does get a notification when the challenge is accepted/declined.


Is this for a single player, 1-v-1 type competition, or team? Because I think there's a bug whereby it's checking a field called "Include in Mailings" which looks like it's disabled for players.


Sorry for the very late reply to this but only since a few days I have been tackling the 1v1 ladder again. I have noticed that I am still running into that problem even with the latest release of MComp. I am wondering though if it might be something I am missing since no one else seems to be having this very problem?

Golem
Contributor
Contributor
 

Re: Ladder: Creating Fixtures

Post Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 11:51 am

- Golem

Sorry for the very late reply to this but only since a few days I have been tackling the 1v1 ladder again. I have noticed that I am still running into that problem even with the latest release of MComp. I am wondering though if it might be something I am missing since no one else seems to be having this very problem?


just a *bump*
I simply cannot seem to find the solution for this problem and want to rule out that I am making a mistake with the settings. Tried to look for that field that you have mentioned but unfortunately with no luck.

Golem
Contributor
Contributor
 

Re: Ladder: Creating Fixtures

Post Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 1:12 pm

Can you try the attached, it goes in "/modules/Competition". It looks like it's not reading the correct email address for the user if it's a 1-v-1 ("player" rather than "team") competition.

Last edited by mark on Tue Jun 15, 2010 9:58 am; edited 1 time in total

mark
Site Admin
Site Admin
 

Re: Ladder: Creating Fixtures

Post Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 12:19 pm

Thank you Mark. This new file has fixed the email notification.

I am getting a (new?) minor issue now: On the main competition screen a player that has already joined a ladder until now has been offered the [x] option to challenge other players (and didnt have to enter the competition page). Now this option is gone. Instead the [>>] to join the ladder stays even though this player already is participating. Clicking this will lead to the error message saying that he has already joined the ladder, as expected.

Furthermore (also minor): I don't have the option anymore for ladders to make it application-based (to keep unwanted players out). I assume though that this is by design?

Thanks again foe the fix Smile

Golem
Contributor
Contributor
 

Ladder: Creating Fixtures

Post Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 5:04 pm

As regards the option to challenge [x] check the event start and end dates. If the event is not active you can't challenge.

As regards the option to join [>>] there's a HUGE amount of logic involved in deciding whether you can join or not (team / player, if team and you're admin of more than one, which is to join, if team how many on roster, of those are any banned, are all custom mandatory fields in yor profile completed etc.), so I decided to leave the option always displayed and execute the logic in the joinEvent program only, rather than go through a hugely complex set of hoops to decide whether to display the option, and then go through those hugely complex set of hoops again if it's clicked.

As regards Ladders, I decided the nature of Ladders is people don't apply for them, they're persistent and people join / leave at will. What I could do, which isn't being done at the moment, is check the ban table for 1-v-1 competitions (the ban table is only checked to determine the size of a teams roster for team events). One thing I'd probably need to do though is make bans Event specific, because at the moment they're only Game specific.

mark
Site Admin
Site Admin
 

Re: Ladder: Creating Fixtures

Post Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 9:20 pm

- mark
As regards the option to challenge [x] check the event start and end dates. If the event is not active you can't challenge.

The start date is not it I think since the challenge system is in effect and does work when you are on the table screen. The option just does not appear on the main competition page any more.

As regards Ladders, I decided the nature of Ladders is people don't apply for them, they're persistent and people join / leave at will. What I could do, which isn't being done at the moment, is check the ban table for 1-v-1 competitions (the ban table is only checked to determine the size of a teams roster for team events). One thing I'd probably need to do though is make bans Event specific, because at the moment they're only Game specific.


Have to agree with you. A more detailed ban system sometimes in the future would solve the issue anyway. Thanks for the info.

Golem
Contributor
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